Todd Rundgren/UTOPIA (and Related) Audio Rarities On CD-R--- v09.2018

My_Atlanta_Slidefor_CDRlist


Largest Collection On The Globe of Todd Rundgren Audio Rarities

Greetings Audio Toddheads! Warren H. (Atlanta, GA. USA) here. Tony Rogers and I have transferred our entire audio collections over to my home in 2008. We (Tony & I) thought my circumstances (A 62 year old, single, IT specialist/Audio Editor guy in Atlanta with lots of Todd Rundgren history/archival collecting since 1972) would be ideal for taking over the 'Library' in all its glory. And, so an 'incorporation' of his and my colossal collections takes place! I now curate this ‘museum’. And I plan to share much of this, just as Tony did all these decades. And yes, I’m somewhat of a Todd Rundgren Historian. I have been 'following' Todd extensively (in all forms of media) ever since I saw (and met) him here at an Historic Show at Atlanta’s Fabulous Fox Theatre on November 8 1973. So I know 'enough'. Please note that I say share my enthusiasm. No buying or selling. Nor will a penny exchange hands. Never.
I want to say a big THANK YOU in advance to all of you who are going to help and have helped with this so far. I’ll do my best. Write me anytime. twarrenh@gmail.com
Just scroll down to the items listed below by period and click on any year to browse the collection.
We've also recently been working in collaboration with my friend Frank Bubnick and his well known vast quality collection (you can visit his list by clicking on his name). Some of his editing is unequaled anywhere.
And some late breaking neat news : I believe most of you are familiar with the JEMS group. A bunch of super collectors for many bands’ audience recordings (predominate though are Yes and Springsteen). Well known for their re-mastering prowess and quality. They’ve been in contact with me for a couple of years, and in December of last year offered me all their (originals) Todd Rundgren Collection. They just didn’t have the resources or the time for refining anything by Todd Rundgren. It just wasn’t on their timeline. I received all their cassettes (60) within a few weeks! Most of them are MASTER tapes from the original Taper. They will be sending me all their DATs and Reels at a later date. I will be listing all these recordings here, as I digitally transfer them. With this addition of the JEMS collection I believe these Todd Rundgren Archives are easily the largest collection on the planet.
How do we share you ask? Well, Just for what it's worth, we really don't do the 'snail mail trading' (by postal) much these days. So, if you would like me to share or trade any of this 'Catalog' with you, it would be more convenient/easiest to share in the form of on-line file transfer. Generally, in .flac format, compressed to .zip or .rar for smoother/faster quality exchange [depending upon the size of the audio file(s) we might be exchanging of course]. Hope that all makes sense. I can work with you on 'all that'. Again, write me, and then we'll come to an agreement of sorts. Please keep in mind, that anything that is 'Official', or 'Professionally Marketed', or still available for 'Retail' purchase is not of consideration. Nor is there any monetary means of transaction.
I do not have any rights to, and I am not open for sharing any material that may be listed below that has been commercially or officially released and is still available retail. (It may be listed below for collection listing purpose only). I do not take or give any money for a single item below either. I do not take away any proceeds that are due to Todd Rundgren, family, friends, business or supporting/associated musicians. If it is ROIO (recording of independent origin), then I'm open to share. Support the artist! Go buy his stuff where and whenever available! Speaking of which; an ultimate place to find/buy Todd's releases and imports & rarities is TRBAZAAR. Check it out! If Scott ain't got it, nobody does...just about! And of course many past official CD/DVD releases and proprietary Todd merchandise is readily available for ordering on-line at The Toddstore. So check them out for sure.
I like to give credit where credit is due too. So please forgive me if I do not credit the right persons involved in making these recordings available/possible for all these years.
I’ll start a ‘Credits’ list here below, and maintain it on down the road. Like to make sure all the folks involved are appreciated. For now, let me go ahead and thank some folks that have really been instrumental in these archives (no particular order): Tony Rogers (of course), Mike Armes, Jeff Gauss (Weavil), Frank Bubnick, Paul Russo, Hiroshi Kawauchi, Istvan, Sara Kritzer, Barry Beiseigel, Roger Steel, Mike Adrian, Gil Ireland-Ashley, Dale Michelsohn, Gary Urwin, Don B., Bob Stanislowski (RIP), Micheal B., Jon Risen, Jon Babcock, Mark Wilpolt, Tom Cannon, Joe Franks, Chris 'Razz', Geoff (& Rick) Laurenzo, Ted Moon, Richard Roys, Storm Hunter, Moz (Mike), Sohta Fujito, David Skye, Allen Law, Matt Walsh, Kevin Lewis, Doug Ford, Dave Knife, JEMS, Jared Houser and players to be named later. Special thanks to Roger Linder for providing this page space for us for decades. Let's Rock!
BTW, I call this group of people 'My Cartel'. However, I have given the group a Media name: F451 Media (as in 451 Farenheit). It is not a brand name, for nothing of mine is for sale or has been sold EVER. It is a logo for these dedicated Todd Rundgren Collectors , which most of been doing this since the early 90s (and even earler). Our logo is:
Fahrenheit451

List only items added in last 15 days (30 days) (45 days) (60 days) Print full list

1960s: 1966 1967 1968 1969
1970s: 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979
1980s: 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989
1990s: 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999
2000s: 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
2010s: 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
Var: Various

Date Title Source Time
1/3/97 CLEVELAND ODEON FM BROADCAST WNCX (EDIT BY PAUL RUSSO) 72:16/67:16
Date Added:11/13/2000
Track List:CD ONE : INTRO/INTERVIEW. COMPUTER LOVE INTRO. BLACK AND WHITE. HAMMER IN MY HEART. I WANT YOU. CLICHE'. LYSISTRADA. CD-I DEMO. THE INDIVIDUALIST. FAMILY VALUES. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS? (ABORTED). TOO FAR GONE. COMPASSION. FREE MALE AND 21 CD TWO: THERE GOES MY INSPIRATION. DOG STORY. TABLES WILL TURN. WOMAN'S WORLD. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS? (COMPLETE). A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER. WORLDWIDE EPIPHANY. THE WHEEL. RADIO ADVERTISEMENT FOR THIS SHOW.
Note:One of the most recent radio broadcasts. Todd was still doing his Individualist solo stuff and his problems with the piano were almost at a peak here. The aborted version of CWSBF is pretty strange, given that he was going out live as he couldn’t remember how it went. The rest of the show was not really affected by the blunder, but most of us heads recognize that this broadcast is one of the reasons why Todd has rarely played piano live since this time. The later 97-98 solo tours saw him bring along Jessie and rely on keys less and less. Nevertheless, this show is a modern classic and it is always a special show when Todd plays the rock and roll capitol and the fans really get an inspired performance. He doesn’t play keys that bad on the whole and comes back with a perfect version of CWSBF on encore. The dog story tells about his new dog that was eating him literally out of house and home in his first months in Hawaii.~ Tony
8/5/97 SEATTLE BALLARD FIREHOUSE AUDIENCE- RECD/TRANSFERRED BY JOHN BRONSKILL 43:05/53:43
Date Added:11/7/2000
Track List: CD ONE: HAMMER IN MY HEART. THERE GOES MY INSPIRATION. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. FREE, MALE AND 21. FASCIST CHRIST. TABLES WILL TURN. THE INDIVIDUALIST. COMPASSION. SONG OF THE VIKING. CD TWO: MYSTIFIED/BROKE DOWN AND BUSTED. YOUVE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY. I WANT YOU. I SAW THE LIGHT. FAMILY VALUES. WOMAN'S WORLD. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. BLACK AND WHITE/ THE WHEEL.
Note:Another masterful upgrade received from Jon. This DAT recording is also with Jessie as was the '98 tour but sounds a bit more focused on this tour. ESSENTIAL.~ Tony
8/9/97 THE BARNEY HOSKYNS INTERVIEW FM BROADCAST 42:06/1:19:26
Date Added:9/17/2012
Track List:THREE LONG TRACKS. TWO DISCS: THE TODD RUNDGREN ARCHIVE INTERVIEWS W/BARNEY HOSKYNS
Note:Wonderful interview. Hoskyns is well informed and knows Todd's history very well. These talks cover from the beginnings up until A Wizard a True Star. Lots of discussion of drug influence/experience. ESSENTIAL~ Warren
8/23/97 SHANGHAI CHINA SHANGHAI CENTER THEATER AUDIENCE 61:12/45:20
Date Added:9/1/2003
Track List:CD ONE: INTRO/INTRO MUSIC/LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. CLICHE'. HAMMER IN MY HEART. YOUVE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY. THE INDIVIDUALIST. TABLES WILL TURN. FAMILY VALUES. I WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. SONG OF THE VIKING. COMPASSION. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. BLACK AND WHITE. CD TWO: TINY DEMONS. THERE GOES MY INSPIRATION. TEMPORARY SANITY. BELOVED INFIDEL. I WANT YOU. I SAW THE LIGHT. ONE WORLD. HAWKING.
Note:This historic moment in time is now on CD coming from Japan...the sound is an improvement over the source tape but still is not that great sonically-their performance and setlist is super...makes me long for those old I days...the show is listenable because of the fact it was over there..My wife actually asked him a question about it before the internet broadcast in 98 I think New Orleans HOB??...No maybe it was west coast one.....thanks to my pal, Hiroshi...~ Tony
9/11/97 JERICHO NY LONG ISLAND BREWING COMPANY FM (EDITED BROADCAST) 71:10/64:54
Track List:CD ONE: HAMMER IN MY HEART. CLICHE'. LYSISTRADA. CD-I DEMO. TABLES WILL TURN. FAMILY VALUES. IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. SONG OF THE VIKING. COMPASSION. MYSTIFIED/BROKE DOWN AND BUSTED. I SAW THE LIGHT. NEVER NEVER LAND CD TWO: A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER. I WANT YOU. BLACK AND WHITE. FREE MALE AND 21. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. WORLDWIDE EPIPHANY
Note:I actually was there was my in-laws to get tickets and I remember being shocked at how small the place was. Mike Adrian did an amazing job by not picking up much noise despite the yap and beer mugs clanking. Good show~ Tony
9/13/97 THE CHANCE POUGHKEEPSIE NY AUDIENCE 59:00/64:00
Date Added:1/2/2016
Track List:DISC ONE:NO 1 LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.CLICHE.THERE GOES MY INSPIRATION.FACIST CHRIST.FAMILY VALUES.TABLES WILL TURN.VIKING SONG.TOO FAR GONE.WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. BLACK & WHITE.DISC TWO:I SAW THE LIGHT.A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER.LOVE IS THE ANSWER.I WANT YOU.THE INDIVIDUALIST.WOMANS WORLD.FREE MALE & 21.HAWKING. THE WHEEL.
Note:I don't know why this one was missing being listed here until now..A very early WAT stop, that I do not know who to do give credit too for doing this fine grab. I think I have the setlist right? Great mix of solo performance here. Lot's of Individualist stuff here and a bit of Nearly Human and Up Against it.The crowd sounds unaware of what to think of the 'With A Twists' pieces.~ Warren
10/30/97 SAN FRANCISCO SLIM'S AUDIENCE SOURCE 63:40/58:31
Track List:CD ONE: INTRO. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO/THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. CD TWO: LOST HORIZON. EASTERN INTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO ITS ME. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. LUCKY GUY. AMERICA DRINKS. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:From Dean Gustafason this is a very very early wat stop. Interesting to see how it sounded early on. the sound is strong for an audience and the performance is good but as we said above is early in the tour. (2nd show?).~ Tony
11/1/97 ‘WITH A TWIST’ HOUSE OF BLUES LOS ANGELES CA ‘CYBERCAST’ BROADCAST IV: 42:20 – SHOW: 2:32:20
Date Added:11/23/2015
Track List:PRE-SHOW INTERVIEW (42:20)
INTRO. CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA.CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS.IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE.ZEN ARCHER.FIDELITY.NEVER NEVER LAND.LOVE IS THE ANSWER.ESPRESSO.OUTRO. INTRO.JUNGLE SOUNDS.THE INDIVIDUALIST.REAL MAN.LOST HORIZON.EASTERN INTRIGUE.CAN'T STOP RUNNING.HELLO IT'S ME.OUTRO.LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN.LUCKY GUY.AMERICA DRINKS AND GOES HOME. I'M SO PROUD/OH BABY BABY.I WANT YOU.A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER.OUTRO.BEAN OUTRO
Note:I sent the tapes of all this (seven various cassettes!) to Jon Babcock, and he transferred them into a few different formats for us. Basically, the tapes were Tony’s (with help from Lisa B.) of the Broadcast ‘Live’ and a ‘Pre-show Interview’, then a ‘Re-Broadcast’ from a later date. Most of it was Mono. Jon transferred it ALL to digital and patched, polished & edited it to a couple of 24/48 formats. With his talents this is one of the finest WAT recordings that we have here in the vaults. Todd and The TIKI Lounge Band in rare form, and Todd is unleashed with his banter and humor between the music. Thank you JON!~ Warren
Here’s a great review from The Hollywood Reporter!:
Hollywood Reporter - Mon., Nov. 3, 1997)
House of Blues, L.A.
Saturday, Nov. 1
By John Lappen
"Was that one olive or two, Mr. Rundgren?
Taking the, by now, overhyped and overdone lounge trend to its inevitable conclusion, Todd Rundgren has become the ultimate space age, bachelor pad hipster. To wit: The pop icon's new Guardian/EMI release, "With A Twist," features 11 of his best known songs redone as lounge homages. But even better, Todd's nearly three-hour performance was a masterful satire, albeit a reverential one, of the entire lounge experience.
With a set constructed to look like a tropical lounge bar on some exotic island locale -- complete with palm trees, tables filled with touristy patrons, a sassy waitress and a bored bartender -- Rundgren and his four-piece band played the part of the weary, done-this-too-many times house band. As his talented quartet broke into a tune oozing with Tiki vibe, Rundgren entered through a beaded curtain dressed in a shiny, loungey-but-not-polyester suit and wrap-around shades.
For the first hour, the Runt entertained with bossa nova versions of Rundgren standards like "I Saw The Light," "It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference" and "Can We Still Be Friends," playing entirely to his onstage audience instead of the sold out house in the real club. In between, he sipped martinis and reeled off a bunch of cheesy jokes about the people in the faux lounge, inquiring of one couple, "Are you married or just looking to get a room?" It all worked brilliantly, particularly the lending of his pop classics to the primarily bossa nova style in which they were revamped.
Taking a break while a comic came out to tell jokes, make sound effects and fully utilize his suitcase of silly props, Rundgren and band came back for the second set, a much more energized one with Todd dressed in garish native costume and face paint. The songs in this set were a melding of lounge and jazz filtered through Rundgren's trademark Philly soul as his high vocals soared atop the Martin Denny-meets-Marvin Gaye arrangements. As the last "drunk" was evicted from Todd's lounge, he closed with a beautiful rendition of "A Dream Goes On Forever," perfect sentiments for any lounge lizard.”

11/2/97 SAN DIEGO BELLY UP TAVERN AUDIENCE~ISTAVAN 64:14/61:40
Date Added:5/1/2006
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN/CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO. THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. CD TWO: LOST HORIZON. EASTERN INTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO ITS ME. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. YOUVE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:Nice to wake up this memory from István-this is a very early on show-where the vocals were still being worked out and are not confident, but the whole vibe is being tested out here in Hromoko land. Fidelity is started over- way too fast...Todd makes a comment about how "cully from x files doesn’t get him up because she breathes through her mouth"...ha....a "bucket-head" reference...mix- the bck vcs are low, Jesse is also very low in the mix..But what a show...You can hear how the synth thing made its way onto this scene at the start-long before the extreme monster it once became....thanks to Istvan
11/22/97 ATLANTA ROXY THEATER AUDIENCE DUB FROM FROM FAN FILM WARREN 70:12/55:32
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. FERENZIK INTRO. THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. LOST HORIZON. EASTERN INTRIGUE. CD TWO: CAN'T STOP RUNNING. HELLO, IT'S ME (CUTS). LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN.. TINY DEMONS. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. I'M SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. AMERICA DRINKS (CUTS).
Note:From a Warren's VHS source. 'With A Twist' in Atlanta. Pretty solid, good quality and almost complete.~ Tony
11/24/97 LANCASTER THE VILLAGE AUDIENCE 69:41/61:36
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO/THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. LOST HORIZON CD TWO: EASTERN INTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO, ITS ME. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. I DONT WANT TO TIE YOU DOWN. LUCKY GUY. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. AMERICA DRINKS. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:One of the very best audience recording of the tour-albeit early. Good Soul Medley here and acoustic numbers. you had to be there- a special show-about the time it came together on the 1st leg.
11/25/97 GLENSIDE PA KESWICK THEATER AUDIENCE -D. WEESNER 63:03/76:19
Date Added:10/7/2003
Track List:CD ONE: INTRO/CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO (SET 2). THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN CD TWO: LOST HORIZON. EASTERN INTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO ITS ME. WEDDING CEREMONY. INTRO (SET 3). LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. YOUVE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY. LUCKY GUY. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. AMERICA DRINKS. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER.
Note:Here is a late arriving and great performance for Todd on the WAT tour...the sound is a bit distant-and has some very slight yip but that being said I’ts not bad....still pretty decent. Zen archer is superb especially. This is a great vocal performance but all of these were pretty damned good...back in the days of tour support...damn this show makes me wish for these days- hard to believe anyone could have a damned bad word to say about this tour...What a concept...thanks-to Mr. W.~ Tony
11/26/97 NEW YORK CITY IRVING PLAZA AUDIENCE 68:49/63:10
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO. THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN CD TWO: LOST HORIZON. EASTERN INTRIGUE. CAN'T STOP RUNNING. HELLO, IT'S ME. TODD BANTER. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. THERE GOES MY INSPIRATION. LUCKY GUY. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. I'M SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. AMERICA DRINKS. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:One of Frank B's and recorded by Mike Adrian in NYC. Very solid audience recording in the chit chattiest place to pull a good one. Not a problem with this one. Great sound.~ Tony
11/28/97 BOSTON PARADISE THEATER AUDIENCE - WOUTER BESSEL (MD)
Date Added:8/16/2004
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FUDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO CD TWO: INTRO. THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. LOST HORIZON>EASTERNINTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO ITS ME CD THREE: LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. TINY DEMONS. BORN TO SYNTHSIZE. I WANT YOU. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. AMERICA DRINKS. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:Nice to get in another show from Tiki time...this one has a threat from Todd to a cigar smoker..synth is nice and cool compared to todays...great version of real man..also HIM is again mystical...low end here is bit low volume but a decent recording, not best from the tour but certainly satisfying....thanks to Mr Bessel for helping us fill out the dates.~ Tony
11/29/97 SPRINGFIELD VA JAXX'S AUDIENCE 70:54/66:37
Track List:CD ONE: CARAVAN. I SAW THE LIGHT. INFLUENZA. CAN WE STILL BE FRIENDS?. IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE. ZEN ARCHER. FIDELITY. NEVER NEVER LAND. LOVE IS THE ANSWER. ESPRESSO. INTRO/THE INDIVIDUALIST. REAL MAN. LOST HORIZON CD TWO: EASTERN INTRIGUE. CANT STOP RUNNING. HELLO, ITS ME. LOVE OF THE COMMON MAN. I DONT WANT TO TIE YOU DOWN. LUCKY GUY. BORN TO SYNTHESIZE. IM SO PROUD/OOH BABY BABY. I WANT YOU. AMERICA DRINKS. A DREAM GOES ON FOREVER
Note:My wife and Romo's girl were the lesbian couple who celebrated their marriage at the end of set 2. That’s why it’s here... no really- the show was a very tight show but the sound (as always in Jaxx's) is not crystal clear due to the house sound and acoustics. Nevertheless this is a peek into the peak of the Tiki tour...sound is very decent but there are some better from this tour, sound wise...~ Tony

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